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Katharina Schilling: Balancing Opposites<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t

In her artistic practice, Katharina Schilling combines seemingly contradictory elements into complex compositions that speculate on both the history and the contemporaneity of painting.<\/p><\/div><\/div>\t<\/div>\n\t

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\n\t\t\tby<\/span>\n\t\t\t Sophia Roxane Rohwetter<\/span>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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\n by<\/span> \n Sophia Roxane Rohwetter<\/span> <\/div>\n
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\n Vienna <\/p>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n

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Katharina Schilling: Balancing Opposites<\/h2>\n \n

In her artistic practice, Katharina Schilling combines seemingly contradictory elements into complex compositions that speculate on both the history and the contemporaneity of painting.<\/p><\/div><\/div> \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n

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Nov 20, 2022 <\/p>

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Photo by Luca Celine M\u00fcller<\/div><\/div>

Through the appropriation and pictorial alienation of historical subjects and techniques such as medieval illuminated manuscripts and Dutch still life, Katharina Schilling<\/a> explores the potential of traditional artistic forms for contemporary painting. Using contrasting styles, each negotiating the relationship between abstraction and figuration in a different way, she breaks with common dichotomies of figure and ground, depth and flatness, control and chance. Her works are complex compositions that challenge our perception and allow us to see a utopic potential in (art) history. With Sophia Roxane Rohwetter she talks about anti-subjective painting, perception and illusion, the use of ornaments and the Beguines movement.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

For some time now, you have been working on two very different painting series: large-format paintings in which everyday objects such as peaches, eggs, or iPhones float on abstract, expressive ground, and a series of smaller figurative paintings \u2013 Sand is water you can walk on<\/em> \u2013 in which you appropriate and alienate fragments of medieval Gothic drawings to transform them into new, contemporary compositions. How do the series vary, also in terms of their process?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

As you say, the series are very different, and this, of course also affects the painting process. While the paintings of the series Sand is water you can walk on<\/em> start from a concept, a sketch or a pictorial idea, the backgrounds of the large images develop through an unpredictable process that starts from the material itself. I lay the canvas on the floor and let the water and pigments lead the way. It\u2019s almost like an action painting outburst from my usual, very controlled painting process. Only later, when I begin to select and re-sew parts of the canvas, does a compositional decision-making process begin.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

You describe both ways of painting as anti-subjective. Can you expand on this term?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I call my work anti-subjective because I try to keep myself out of the paintings. There are no indexical traces, such as brushstrokes. You might see traces of the pigments, but the movement of my hand remains invisible. But of course, the anti-subjective can only ever be an assertion and a contradiction. One cannot paint anti-subjectively. Painting is the artistic medium par excellence that stands for subjective expression. But I try to work against that.<\/p><\/div>

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Photo by Luca Celine M\u00fcller<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

In the series Sand is water you can walk on<\/em>, you appropriate and alienate Gothic drawings of crusades and other religious scenes. How did you come across these images, by chance or were you looking for something specific?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I usually don\u2019t start a painting through research but come across things through my previous paintings. Before beginning this series, I had painted equestrian spurs, and while searching for representations of riding spurs, I came across a digital archive of medieval manuscripts. This image search then led to a longer research process, in which I studied, for example, the medieval Beguine movements, a community of women who led lives in a semi-religious order, free from any male authority. I\u2019m interested in the independence of these women and how they sustained themselves outside the given social structures. They can be seen as precursors of later feminist movements. This research finds no direct expression in my paintings but allows me to see these medieval drawings differently. For example, I began to focus on figures in the manuscripts that wore robes that resembled those of the Beguines, and as the figures are not clearly identifiable as men or women, I began to think of the images as scenes of women. At that time, I read The Mirror of Simple Souls<\/em> by the Beguine and mystic Marguerite Porete. Her writing had a political, almost anarchistic potential in that it rejected the authoritarianism of the Catholic church. Reading Simon Critchley\u2019s book on mystical anarchism, I began to wonder what would have been different in the history of Catholicism and the history of women if the Beguines hadn\u2019t been banned by the Pope at some point and Porete hadn\u2019t been burned at the stake.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Was she burned as a witch?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Not exactly. In the Inquisition papers, it says that she was burned for being \u201ca false woman\u201d. Anne Carson writes about this in Decreation<\/em>.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

A false woman? What was meant by that?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

That remains a mystery. Perhaps she transcended too far beyond the spheres assigned to women. Some women mystics were tolerated by the Catholic Church, those who wrote about how the soul unites with the love of God. In Porete\u2019s writings, the soul and God form a unity so that the divine resides in man himself. Perhaps this form of religious empowerment of a woman posed a real threat to the Church.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I now begin to see the references to the Beguine movement in your paintings, but at the same time the complex multiplications and water reflections mirror and morph the figures into unrecognizable assemblages of human limbs or dissolve them altogether. One sees figures in particular poses, but they lack any context as if you would de-historicize and de-individualize them.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, I started isolating fragments from the manuscripts, mainly legs, hands, and the fall of the folds. I didn\u2019t want to paint the faces of the figures because you can\u2019t see a face abstractly. I\u2019m interested in how a painting can oscillate between abstraction and figuration, how one needs the other. In the medieval manuscripts, the legs and hands are always depicted in the same schematic style; their representation is very graphic, almost cartoon-like. Through the repetition and duplication of the fragments, I create rhythm and an ornamental quality. When the figures are absent, the ornamental itself becomes the motif.<\/p><\/div>

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Photo by Luca Celine M\u00fcller<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

The ornament also speaks to the idea of relationality that you spoke of in reference to the Beguines, a communality that is reflected in the ways the figures\u2019 hands touch each other. It almost seems like they can\u2019t appear alone in the paintings. They always form a constellation.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, they create patterns of togetherness and connectivity. But I also made a painting in which there is only one figure in a red robe running out of the pictorial space. Maybe that was a visualization of my urge to keep myself out of the images. The self is leaving the center of the image.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

The figures appear to be in motion, a movement that is enhanced by the water reflections that sometime even extend to the shape of the canvas. At the same time, the paintings seem strangely still. Something similar seems to be at stake in the large format paintings in which objects float freely through time and space, and yet are captured in a moment of absolute stillness, especially when arranged in spiral formations. There is an interesting simultaneity of movement and stillness in your work.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

A painting is a still object in a dynamic world, but you can still capture movement in it. I\u2019m interested in holding these supposed opposites, movement and stillness, fluidity and solidity.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

The fruits and other objects in your large format paintings seem to refer to Dutch still life painting. But instead of being arranged on a surface in a religious or domestic setting, they float through abstract grounds.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, some objects remind of classical still life in both their motif and the way they are painted. I play with Trompe-l\u2019\u0153il and photorealistic painting styles. But, as you say, I detach the objects from their art-historical context to link them with other epochs and painting styles. When I paint peaches on a Batik ground, I combine elements of still life painting with textile art, fine arts with applied arts. Batik is a very old cultural technique, but in the context of the New Age movement, it has also taken on a psychedelic meaning. All these connotations come together in the painting.<\/p><\/div>

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Katharina Schilling: The Second Day. Stadium, Berlin, 2019. Photos by groupshow.eu und graysc<\/div><\/div><\/div>
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Katharina Schilling: The Second Day. Stadium, Berlin, 2019. Photos by groupshow.eu und graysc<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Perhaps there is a connection between still life painting and the psychedelic aspect of Batik in that both play with perception and illusion. In our last conversation, you mentioned the book Rhetorics of Perspective<\/em>, in which the author Hanneke Grootenboer proposes a new theory of perspective based on the illusions of non-narrative still-life painting, trompe-l\u2019oeil and anamorphic painting. She argues that these images question the status of representation and explore the limits of perception.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, still life painting is, after all, much about the first moment of conscious perception. It allowed to reflect on perception itself, and in this sense, it marks the point when art became autonomous. Unlike in narrative painting, in which a story determines certain perceptions, in still life painting, the painted objects are no longer just symbols that stand in for something, but instead, they ask us to look. I always try to paint objects in such a way that they operate as building blocks or painterly forms rather than just as symbols. An egg can be perceived as a very banal object, and at the same time appear as something sublime. I\u2019m interested in maintaining this duality.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

There is a text by the philosopher and art historian Louis Marin, in which he describes how Cezanne\u2019s apple still life paintings are about the visual apparatus itself, the apple of the eye, which makes perception possible in the first place. This is also something that Sabeth Buchmann speaks about in relation to Jutta Koether\u2019s paintings; the red circles could be apples or nipples, but also eyes.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

That\u2019s interesting. Many artistic forms and philosophical ideas on perception were developed through still life painting: Cubism came out of it, Cezanne\u2019s Impressionism, the debate about viewpoints and perspectives, the critique of the central perspective and the fixed viewpoint\u2026Grootenboer also writes about how the objects in still life painting look back at us looking at them.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, she writes that \u201cpainting offers its own perspective, not in representing the objects we see, but in picturing us looking.\u201d<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I\u2019m also interested in how perception constitutes our relationship to the objects in the world. A pea painted on the surface of a canvas might be able to speak about our relationship to the universe.<\/p><\/div>

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Katharina Schilling and Miriam Stoney: Common Notions, House of Spouse, 2022. Photos by Flavio Pesto<\/div><\/div><\/div>
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Katharina Schilling and Miriam Stoney: Common Notions, House of Spouse, 2022. Photos by Flavio Pesto<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

This relationship between figure and ground also reveals the complex relationship between abstraction and figuration. Detached from its context, the pea might become something else and dissolve into abstract forms.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Exactly. And I think that really works, abstraction through figuration and realistic representation. But if I painted a peach with a rotten spot, then it would immediately be read in relation to temporality, and it could no longer be seen abstractly.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Memento mori.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

We always look for narratives and references, but I want to get to a primal form. One should really only see \u2018egg\u2019.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

An egg that floats through infinity \u2013 on canvas.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, that is something I love about painting; I can suggest a boundless or vastness within the very limited framework of the canvas.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

This idea of vastness is interesting in relation to depth, something that Grootenboer writes about concerning still life painting. But looking at your paintings, I feel that it\u2019s more about flatness than depth.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Maybe. The medieval motifs are, as I said, related to the idea of the ornamental, and the ornament spreads out in all directions, infinitely, it moves on a surface within non-hierarchical space. In my big paintings, there is an oscillation between depths and flatness. Seen from a distance, there is a suggestion of depth, but when you get closer, you see that there is actually no such depth, that it\u2019s just pigments sitting on the surface. Someone said \u2013 maybe it was Lacan? \u2013 that vastness is depth seen in profile. I think that is a very beautiful image.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Totally, and it\u2019s exactly this vastness, as depth in profile, that I see in your paintings.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

That\u2019s also something that my friend, the filmmaker and art theorist Eva Hegge talks about in relation to digitality; how our digital ways of seeing take place on an extreme vast plane. Digital space is even flatter than a sheet of paper. A Google image search is just one large flat juxtaposition. There is no depth in the digital world.<\/p><\/div>

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Photo by Luca Celine M\u00fcller<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I would like to take up this thought on digitality, in relation to the so-called \u2018end of painting,\u2019 a common topos in art history, which was most recently dealt with in an exhibition curated by Peter Fischli at the Fondazione Prada in Venice. The exhibition examined five ruptures \u2013 photography, the readymade, the death of the author, the commodification of painting, and the crisis of criticism \u2013 that somehow claimed an end to painting. Maybe digital art, CGI and AI are the current ruptures that challenge painting\u2019s existence. Is that something you engage with in your work?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

That is an interesting question. I feel that painting is increasingly permeated by the digital. I use digital tools already when searching for image ideas.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

An exhibition organized by Eleanor Cayre and Dean Kissick recently dealt with the question of \u201cthe painter\u2019s new tools\u201d and argued that despite or because of the new technological tools, new images are still possible. It seems that painting can deal with its own end in a very productive way.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, Isabelle Graw writes about something similar in Die Liebe zur Malerei<\/em> in relation to Avery Singer. She argues that in working with the digital habits of seeing and looking, Singer\u2019s work takes digital illusionism into painting. There might be a connection between digitality and the more recent interest in illusionist painting. Painting being limited to a two-dimensional surface must keep up with the seductiveness of the digital, and in painting the digital moments of irritation and illusion might become even more substantial.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

To conclude our conversation, I\u2019d like to talk about your exhibition with Miriam Stoney, an artist and writer who works primarily text-based, at House of Spouse in Vienna. For this exhibition, you are painting a book for the first time, Friederike Mayr\u00f6cker\u2019s Die Abschiede<\/em>. How did this come about?<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

The starting point for the exhibition is a text-image Miriam and I created together, which is based on a handwritten note by her that I translated onto canvas. In this note, Miriam mentions Mayr\u00f6cker, and when I found an edition of Die Abschiede<\/em> with an image of a flower still life on its cover, I knew I wanted to paint that. Books are actually not so well suited for my practice because you can\u2019t see them abstractly. Therefore, this painting works differently. I show something that I usually wouldn\u2019t do. But then again, painting Miriam\u2019s note was also a form of anti-subjective painting, because I was tracing her handwriting with my brush, but taking myself back. I was also interested in trying it out, because text and literature are very central for my work. I don\u2019t write myself, but I read a lot, especially novels, and I notice that texts shape or influence my work unconsciously. The exhibition also deals with the possibility or impossibility of finding an artistic or literary form for the representation of the unconscious.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

The unconscious that is structured like a language. Thinking about what you said about the anti-subjective, I believe that this is something that I struggle with in my writing as I often find it difficult to not appear in my texts. I fear that in much contemporary writing the lyrical or prosaic I and the writer often fall into one too quickly. I think it\u2019s precisely the trend towards the auto-fictional that, through some misunderstanding of the genre, writers and readers started to fetishize the subjective.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, there seems to be some sort of mania for authenticity. I\u2019ve asked myself whether, in face of increasing uncertainty over fact and fiction, art now must provide some sort of truth. \u00a0<\/p><\/div>

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Photo by Luca Celine M\u00fcller<\/div><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

That is an interesting thought. Maybe that is why a TV show like The Rehearsal<\/em> is interesting right now, it complicates our ideas of fact and fiction, and presents an authentic self that is produced artificially, through the meticulous rehearsing and recreating of reality.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

I guess there\u2019s a sense of alienation from reality that Reality TV offers a solution to.<\/p><\/div>

Sophia<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Maybe both autofiction and Reality TV offer a kind of self-reassurance.<\/p><\/div>\n

Katharina<\/p><\/p><\/div>

Yes, for sure. My anti-subjective strategy arises from the opposite desire that I would rather flee from myself, and I succeed in this in brief moments when painting. However, painting pictures, like writing texts, inevitably ends again and again in self-assertion. There is no escape from this contradiction.<\/p><\/div>

Katharina Schilling<\/strong> lives and works in Vienna and Berlin. She studied painting at the Academy of Fine Arts in Leipzig. Her duo exhibition with Miriam Stoney \"Common Notions\" is on view at House of Spouse from November 10th to December 28th. Recent solo and group exhibitions took place at Kunstverein Kunstraum Potsdam (2022), Kunsthalle Exnergasse Vienna (2022), Kunstverein Leipzig (2021), The Tail, Brussels (2020), Stadium, Berlin (2019) Kunsthalle Bremen (2018), Museum der Bildenden K\u00fcnste Leipzig (2016), among other venues.<\/p><\/div> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n

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Jakub Choma: Everything is Labour<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t

The entangled artistic ecosystem of Jakub Choma articulates our close-knit existence with(in) technology.<\/p><\/p><\/div><\/div>\t<\/div>\n\t

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Mirela Baciak: Institutional Hospitality and Care Against All Oddities<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t

As director of the Salzburger Kunstverein, Mirela Baciak elevates hospitality and care to the essential, resilient principle of a sustainable art institution in the long term.<\/p><\/p><\/div><\/div>\t<\/div>\n\t

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\n\t\t\t\tart\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tpeople\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t

\n\t\t\tSalzburg\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t<\/div>\n\t

<\/div>\n <\/div>\n\t\n\n<\/div>\n\n"}]